MaxedOutMama
Saturday, January 22, 2005
A Slugfest & the Metro USA racist incidents
This is a wild brawl, but it has its entertaining and illuminating moments. The question posed by Deutsche-Welle to be discussed on their forum (start from the bottom and read upwards) is:
Bush's ability to win with such a campaign must show that some of what he was saying was perceived as highly if unpleasantly realistic by the American public, and that public felt that the Democratic party failed to mount a tolerable opponent making a credible case for a better way to conduct our nation's affairs. That's a problem for the Democratic party, it seems to me.
This caught my eye, because it was so close to New Sisyphus' way of looking at things:
Anon-x responded strongly to the accusation of being ill-informed, which came from another American poster:
Among all the outrage in Massachusetts about the allegations against Metro, many people didn't notice that this is a European company. Here's the local reaction, and here's another story, but the background to all this is that the people involved are European and the remarks were made at company meetings in Europe. Steve Nylund remains with the company in London, although he had to resign from his position as president of the American division. Hans-Holger Albrecht resigned from the board, but remains the head of Modern Time Group, a recent Metro spin-off. It takes some chutzpah to explain that you used the word "nigger" accidentally when translating into English a joke you just told referring to the out-sized equipment of black men. Albrecht opened a meeting by welcoming "ladies, gentlemen and niggers". But it was all accidental, you see, and no one meant to be culturally insensitive, although some of those who worked at the company had other opinions.
Depressing, but I believe Boris Becker would not be surprised in the least. I have encountered prejudice in the US, but it is nothing compared to the self-satisfied and self-righteous way some in Europe express their opinions about the native deficiencies of the world's "other people". I have also met genuinely unprejudiced Europeans; no country or culture is monolithic.
2004 saw the US and EU take tentative steps towards improving ties following the dispute over the Iraq war. But now with George Bush in the White House for four more years, many on both sides of the Atlantic fear the two continents will drift apart again.There is too little of the European perspective here, and too many Americans fighting it out. One reader announced a civil war:
Are the US and Europe in for more rough waters or will the transatlantic differences recede? Take part in our forum and discuss the issue with other DW-WORLD readers.
I am sorry that our old friends are being troubled by George W. Bush. As I have tried to explain to other European friends: George W. Bush had no majority. Oh surely, if you were to believe his ridiculous rhetoric, it is not just a majority, but a mandate! The truth is that our political system is enough different than yours, that you don't understand that he is really a weak President. This election has shown, more than any other, that we are not all behind George. In our world, you have to vote either Republican, or Democrat. There are no other alternatives. Sure, the Religious Right has a solid 16% behind George, but what you don't realize is that there are a lot of moderates across the spectrum that voted for him only because there were no acceptable alternatives. He comes into office with the lowest approval rating of any President except Richard Nixon, and merely deludes himself into believing we are going to fall in behind him. According to all of the polls the exact opposite is the situation. 44% of the voters knew that they were going to vote against George W. Bush before they even were sure of the Democratic candidate. It was an, "I HATE GEORGE W BUSH!!" vote from the beginning. People who voted for him were primarily either ignorant, uneducated, backwoods, simpletons from the sticks; or upper class RICH Americans who had the most to gain. As for the rest of us, 49% of 270 million,{Most of us living in urban areas, well educated, and in control, really, of all the society that allows those backwards Hicks to exist (including many, many, many, educated Religious Right members who realize that George W. Bush is using the Religious Right!)}, despise George W. Bush, and hold dear our friends in the EU and Germany! It is nearly a Civil War with the intelligent, educated -vs- stupid, ignorant, and uneducated/the Rich butt-heads. We may be down for this election, but there is 2008, and we will prevail!While I think the American public has a deep aversion to military action, I also think Bush is in a stronger position than his approval ratings show. Bush offered America no large benefit programs and no easy ways out, insisted that Americans face significant domestic and international threats, and basically told us that what we had seen in the last four years was what we were going to get if we voted for him during the next four years. Not much of a way to address your negatives, is it?
Bush's ability to win with such a campaign must show that some of what he was saying was perceived as highly if unpleasantly realistic by the American public, and that public felt that the Democratic party failed to mount a tolerable opponent making a credible case for a better way to conduct our nation's affairs. That's a problem for the Democratic party, it seems to me.
This caught my eye, because it was so close to New Sisyphus' way of looking at things:
Sandreckoner has it right. America does not deserve the hatred and vitriol directed towards us from Europe. We have done nothing to deserve it. Once your average American starts to realize exactly how most Europeans feel, then Europe will see a backlash the type of which they have never seen from America. Say goodbye to the free defense we provide you. No more keeping the sea lanes open for free. Want to boycott American products? Wait until we boycott yours. The next Bosnia or Kosovo, guess what? Do it yourself. We will focus all our attention on China, Russia and India, the real future of the world. And guess what? American disengagement will be the best thing for Europe. The continent needs to grow up. Without America's military subsidizing, Europe will have one of two choices. Either it can finally dismantle its welfare state, modernize its economy and build a functional military or it can fade into irrelevance once and for all. If Europe finally grows up and is forced to have global responsibilities, they won't be so quick to judge American actions. Only then will we be able to get past the non stop temper tantrums we see from Europe now over literally anything America does.Sandreckoner posted a whole essay of a sort. There was information in there I didn't know, such as about the military exercise this summer. He continues here, and here, and concludes here.
Anon-x responded strongly to the accusation of being ill-informed, which came from another American poster:
I am a vietnamese american. i speak chinese, vietnamese, japanese, korean, english and french, which was force upon vietnamese people after they abolished our language and writing systems as they raped and pillaged vietnam. I read overseas news in their native language, i rely less on US news, I have a broader view of the world than you may think. I do not need their forgiveness, when they treat me like trash because i have slanty eyes and carry an american passport. I was treated as a second class citizen when i traveled thru europe while studying at leeds. I've studied both abroad in europe and asia and viewed europe from personal experiences not thru the news media.One thing I can say is that a lot of the European press does truly represent a highly prejudicial picture of American goals. Another thing I can say is that I have encountered so many Americans who have commented on encountering racial and ethnic prejudice among Europeans that I have to believe it is sometimes a real factor in the way Europeans view the world.
Among all the outrage in Massachusetts about the allegations against Metro, many people didn't notice that this is a European company. Here's the local reaction, and here's another story, but the background to all this is that the people involved are European and the remarks were made at company meetings in Europe. Steve Nylund remains with the company in London, although he had to resign from his position as president of the American division. Hans-Holger Albrecht resigned from the board, but remains the head of Modern Time Group, a recent Metro spin-off. It takes some chutzpah to explain that you used the word "nigger" accidentally when translating into English a joke you just told referring to the out-sized equipment of black men. Albrecht opened a meeting by welcoming "ladies, gentlemen and niggers". But it was all accidental, you see, and no one meant to be culturally insensitive, although some of those who worked at the company had other opinions.
Depressing, but I believe Boris Becker would not be surprised in the least. I have encountered prejudice in the US, but it is nothing compared to the self-satisfied and self-righteous way some in Europe express their opinions about the native deficiencies of the world's "other people". I have also met genuinely unprejudiced Europeans; no country or culture is monolithic.
Comments:
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I think that we should:
A) Pull out of Europe. Let them grow up. Boycott their products. Give them a new perspective.
B) Let the left declare a 'civil war' on the right. I would love to see the "49%...{Most of us living in urban areas, well educated, and in control.....of all the society that allows those backwards Hicks to exist" try to slug it out with "ignorant, uneducated, backwoods, simpletons from the sticks; or upper class RICH Americans". That would be funny and short lived I think.
Most libs don't own guns. See the comedy here?
A) Pull out of Europe. Let them grow up. Boycott their products. Give them a new perspective.
B) Let the left declare a 'civil war' on the right. I would love to see the "49%...{Most of us living in urban areas, well educated, and in control.....of all the society that allows those backwards Hicks to exist" try to slug it out with "ignorant, uneducated, backwoods, simpletons from the sticks; or upper class RICH Americans". That would be funny and short lived I think.
Most libs don't own guns. See the comedy here?
Kender,
I think you're going a little bit overboard there. Europe has a lot to offer and is struggling with its own problems and trying to achieve peaceful change. Their struggle is a human struggle, and if it succeeds it will offer hope to the rest of the world.
We owe them whatever help we can give and no obstructionism, just as they owe that to the rest of the world.
And the "left" - whatever that means, because I sure don't know anymore - is no more monolithic than Europe. One person describing half of the voters in America as fools doesn't define the "left", any more than one religious fanatic defines a religion.
I don't admire the revival of anti-Semitism in Europe, but I read the same types of rhetoric over here. Idiots and fanatics live in all countries and cultures. The task for the rest of us to stay objective and focused on solutions.
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I think you're going a little bit overboard there. Europe has a lot to offer and is struggling with its own problems and trying to achieve peaceful change. Their struggle is a human struggle, and if it succeeds it will offer hope to the rest of the world.
We owe them whatever help we can give and no obstructionism, just as they owe that to the rest of the world.
And the "left" - whatever that means, because I sure don't know anymore - is no more monolithic than Europe. One person describing half of the voters in America as fools doesn't define the "left", any more than one religious fanatic defines a religion.
I don't admire the revival of anti-Semitism in Europe, but I read the same types of rhetoric over here. Idiots and fanatics live in all countries and cultures. The task for the rest of us to stay objective and focused on solutions.
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