MaxedOutMama

I must come right out and say this. I have danced around it, trying not to cause some goofball to call out the troops because of some "threat", but if Michael Schiavo were married to someone in my family he would have been dead long ago.

He is scum.
He is the most vile man in the US, and that says something.
OTOH I may have found his phone number.
Perhaps a call is in order.
 

and more here
 

 

what is wrong with my HTML tonight?
those last two posts DO have links in them...roll the mouse some...sorry...very tired
 

I hope you're right about the stay and the new hearing. I've been hunting the web and I can't find confirmation. It's hard to tell from the website's papers where the matter was left legally.

I'm depressed. I can't judge the man, but I think all of this is quite inexplicable. That's the way I'll leave it.

I've been following this story for years and years, seeing all the inaccuracies in the press when the truth was out there - and eventually out there on the web. While the videos and the doctors' testimony was on the web they were still writing articles stating the opposite. I've followed the legal stuff. I've watched all the statutes be bent. I can only imagine what this must be like for her parents and brother.

Kender, I have slowly come to the conclusion that it's all about money. A bunch of government and insurance interests just don't want a precedent establishing her continued life because of what they believe it would cost in the future in other cases. The judges all rule this way because they don't want Terri to slowly improve with actual therapy and set a stunning example that can be used to sway public opinion. Once they started down this path they are afraid to back off it.

The recent study showing that a lot of people who have been diagnosed as in "intractable vegetative states" or comas have plenty of brain activity is up at the Schindlers' website. Of course, Terri is not even in that category. All anyone ever had to do was look at those videos to see that.
 

Kender, as to Michael, we can leave that with God. This is where your faith can rescue you. Don't call him; be thankful that you are not him. I would rather be Terri than Michael and so would you.
 

I'm somewhat familiar with this case (tho not completely) but is the understanding that no one really knows exactly how she got injured and the thinking is, that Michael did it and that's why he won't turn her over to her family?
 

Esther,

I would be wary of assuming that. It might be that the man is operating in a cauldron of guilt, distress and fear that are making him act this way. Believe me, I can angst for days over something that's not my fault, and if Chief No-Nag were to suddenly fall ill like this I would probably be tied in knots about it. Why hadn't I known? What hadn't I noticed? What happened? What could I have done differently?

I don't think such an assertion should be made without real evidence. Think about being in this situation yourself - you might well fear being unjustly accused. This whole situation has gotten incredibly complicated. We should extend him the benefit of such doubt as we can muster or at least silence.

But I think any parent can understand how awful it would be to have a child in this situation too. There's no need to assume that either side is a villain, although the parents were certainly portrayed that way in most of the press for a long while.
 

My grandfather has demanded several times in my hearing that if he ever descends into Alzheimers dementia* or otherwise loses his mental faculties that we, his family, do what we can to see he lives no longer than necessary. I don't believe he's ever asked that we actually end his life under such conditions, but I think he'd also never want to place such a burden on his loved ones. Fundamentally, it is his wish that his body not persist in invalidity past the termination of the part of himself he most values.

My uncle's religious beliefs are far more traditional and conservative than D-Dad's, and has never made clear if his opprobrium regarding my grandfather's request would rise to the level of legal challenge if the rest of us tried to remove life support or whatever. Fortunately, my grandfather is into his 80s and wields as sharp a mind as ever, leading me to hope that our family will never be faced with such a heartwrenching scenario.

I don't know what Michael's motives are - I can come up with several hypotheses not yet listed - but given that he seems to have no personal financial interest in refusing Terri's family's offer, it's possible that he's doing what he's doing in a loyal attempt to honor her wishes.

*His father died of Alzheimers after several years of decline, and the extreme indignity of a strong, shrewd man reduced to a drooling mockery of himself mortified my nuclear chemist grandfather.
 

Nato,

It definitely points to the need to make your wishes known, one way or another. My family did have to go through such a decision, and it was very hard. My grandmother had made her wishes known to everyone, including through every legal step her state included, and she had been part of the campaign to get the legislation passed in her state. Still it was hard for my mother to carry out her wishes and there was opposition within the family and from doctors.

I doubt any young person like Terri does the paperwork, so there is no record of her thoughts on the matter. When you are in your twenties of course it is the last thing you're thinking of. I guess we need to be letting people know they need to consider the possibility.

That having been said, it's clear to me that these laws are now being twisted pretty far from their original intent, and most patients with brain injuries tend to be removed from life support quite quickly, no matter what the patient's or family's wishes. In response there is a movement now to execute documents saying that you don't want to be removed from life support, denied nutrition, or denied antibiotics.

One thing about doing the paperwork is that it lessens the pain and suffering for your family if they wind up facing this type of choice. That's worth a lot.

Nato, the husband in this case went to court to block the parents from bringing other doctors and trying to rehabilitate her. There were those, including at least one nurse, who thought she could be taught to swallow. This is a very difficult and problematic case.
 

MOM, I'm not deeply familiar with the case, so I'm certainly not going to leap (amble?) further to Michael's defense, especially since the few details I know don't really endear him to me. I just wanted to throw out my story as a caution against drawing dire conclusions awfully quickly, which some people seem to be doing.

As for the importance of making your wishes known... well, given where I'm headed in the not-too-distant future, perhaps I should not be another example of a "young person like Terri" who hasn't hade his/her wishes well and legally known.
 

Please don't misunderstand me. I was asking if that was what people were thinking because I'm not overly familiar with the case and I haven't been reading about it on blogs (and I got the impression you guys had so I was asking what's the feeling out there). It was not meant as an accusation from me. If the answer is no, fine. I was under the impression it was an accident that caused her to be like this and no one knows "how" the accident happened. Is that inaccurate? I'm simply asking for info cause I'm too lazy to check it myself. (MoM, can one catch your flu from visiting your site? I'm under the weather today.) ;)
 

Esther,
As to the flu, no it is not electronically transmitted, or that's what the doctor said anyway. By Friday of last week I was more than willing to don a tinfoil hat to defend myself against the wicked cosmic attacks by some vast and evil conspiracy against me, but the doc insisted it was the flu and hinted that whining would not help.

Today I'm back to work and we look like the doctor's waiting room. We are all wheezing, sneezing, coughing and whimpering about it, and our effective IQ as a group is not impressive.

As the doctor said, it is going around. I'll hand his advice out for free - "If you had just gone to bed when you first felt ill you'd probably be better by now."

I'm not criticizing you for what you wrote - I'm just pointing out that no one knows and no one ever will. Since there was a lawsuit filed against the doctors I doubt a dispassionate verdict is possible. I guess I'm pretty much with Nato in not wanting to vilify anyone without clear evidence.

Marty,
You are making an important point about the right of individuals to reject artificial sustenance of life. I strongly support that right, yet there are so many financial incentives pushing the withdrawal of care that I think it must be carefully structured in order to protect helpless patients who don't want to die this way and those who want to make the choice not to be kept alive this way.

Regardless of the original court determination, it seems clear that she is not in a permanent vegetative state as the term is normally understood. If the original determination is wrong, then Florida law is not being followed, or at least that is what I have read. Lawyers for the family have documented several other particulars which cause them to maintain that Florida law has not been followed.

Have you ever looked at the videos or the other doctors' statements? The parents had more than one medical authority prepared to go into court and contradict the original determination, but that has never been permitted by the legal system according to what I have read.

This is a complicated case. I won't presume to judge it, nor the actions of the people in it. But since the parents are prepared to assume the burden of her care and hold the husband harmless, then I don't see why that would not be a better solution than starving to death a woman who has some degree of consciousness and responsiveness, who never went through the legal procedures designed to establish her preferences, and whose parents deeply oppose her death.

Thanks for the link. The last paragraph in the story was:
"Both sides accused each other of being motivated by greed over a $1 million medical malpractice award from doctors who failed to diagnose the chemical imbalance. The Schindlers argue Michael Schiavo should divorce their daughter."

At this point, it seems that money and legal liability is off the table, and that is why I linked to the letter and explained the offer the Schindlers had made in the post.

I think Nato is right in pointing out that the lesson in this case for us is that we should all make our preferences known clearly while we can.

Nato,
I suppose it would be wise. I certainly hope it will be a useless exercise, but life is very uncertain. You could make it through and then be wiped out in a car accident or get meningitis or something like that. One thing hospice training taught me was the importance of trying to handle as much as you could while you are still well so you don't leave your family holding the bag when you can't help them make such decisions.

I wish you well. I know we all do.
 

legally, I don't think it will make any difference one way or another, but I would like to applaud the Schindlers for stepping up to the plate.
 

Dingo - you isolated the core of the matter. We would all do well to try to live up to their example.