MaxedOutMama
Monday, June 06, 2005
Blair Punts The EU
Not surprisingly, the UK government is punting its scheduled referendum. See No Oil For Pacifists for the details; as usual there are a lot of them. One aspect of his post you don't want to miss is the Telegraph's new proposed EU Constitution. I hope Chirac took his blood-pressure medication today.
Jack Straw officially informed Parliament that the UK would not be proceeding with the planned referendum:
And in this one, a guest addresses the fundamental problem for Germany - on what is Germany's national identity founded? Abraham Lincoln answered that question for America, a nation of immigrants, in the 1800's. It is long past time for Germany to deal with that question:
Jack Straw officially informed Parliament that the UK would not be proceeding with the planned referendum:
In a Commons statement, Mr Straw told MPs that following the document’s rejection by voters in France and the Netherlands, two of the EU’s founding states, it would not be “sensible” to set a date for the second reading of the European Union Bill – which would have provided for a referendum in the UK next spring.This Is London has a less restrained story:
The British referendum on the EU constitution was effectively abandoned today, sparking fury in France and Germany.It's odd that the Eurocrats want to insist that he go ahead. It would go down to certain defeat. The only reason I can see why they so desperately wanted to prevent the official halt was that it would allow them to pretend that the Constitution wasn't dead for several more months. This does not say much for Europe's political leadership, does it? Kosmoblog-english does not believe they are dealing with reality either. Ulrich Speck speculates on the future in this post.
Foreign Secretary Jack Straw read the last rites to the ill-fated treaty by halting the passage of legislation to allow a national vote.
And in this one, a guest addresses the fundamental problem for Germany - on what is Germany's national identity founded? Abraham Lincoln answered that question for America, a nation of immigrants, in the 1800's. It is long past time for Germany to deal with that question:
Regardless of who wins Germany’s national election later this year, whatever coalition assumes power will face an array of difficulties unknown since the economic wonder of the 1950s. The key issue facing Germany, however, has nothing to do with the tax rates, unemployment benefits, or health insurance. Before consensus can be reached on any of these topics, Germany must answer a fundamental question. What makes us German?and:
Large foreign populations cannot live in any society as outsiders indefinitely. Culture, the ethereal glue that binds populations and creates mass identity is as temporary as it is fluid. History has shown cultures have enormous capacity for change. Go into any Antiquariat and read a selection of books written in Germany between the wars to understand how much has changed in the last seventy-five years. One could argue that a German who lived under the Kaiser would hardly recognize German culture today. The pace of change is accelerating. German-born foreigners are having a profound effect on everything from eating habits to the landscape.What DL is really addressing is the focus of common aspirations that must unite a society. Do read No Oil For Pacifist's post - the link to the "new and improved constitution" shouldn't be missed.
Germany must change the criteria for citizenship and enlarge the definition of who is German, otherwise it risks alienating the society it has for the sake of a society that ceased to exist.
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I really think the EU was just looking for legitimacy with the vote and if it ever occurred to them the people wouldn't vote the way they were told there would have been a different means of ratification. I also think there was a little bit of hope that Britain would be the one state that didn't approve.
As best as I can tell I don't think there was ever any intent on having any of the previous yes voters re-vote if the constitution was changed to gain approval from France or the Netherlands. Am I cynical about all of this? You bet.
I also happen to think a united Europe is a good thing if they can do it right. But this ain't it.
As best as I can tell I don't think there was ever any intent on having any of the previous yes voters re-vote if the constitution was changed to gain approval from France or the Netherlands. Am I cynical about all of this? You bet.
I also happen to think a united Europe is a good thing if they can do it right. But this ain't it.
# posted by 
: 3:12 PM
: 3:12 PM 
I'm not usually so tentative, but I am going to be tentative in what I say here.
I tend to agree with "the focus of common aspirations that must unite a society" undergirds a group that act as a nation, and that leads me to doubt tommy's"a united Europe is a good thing if they can do it right". Just how would that work?
I think German cultural identity is pretty strongly united in some basics, I think it transfers through generations here in the States. I don't think that foreign transplants so much change the culture as the environment and peripheral things. I could be wrong, but my experience with Europeans was to be surprised how deeply ingrained the lines of separation tend to be between culture groups. Even in close proximity for hundreds of years.
I think all the northern European States will have to figure out policy and social acceptance and blending of their immigrants. I haven't come across those ideas anywhere yet.
I tend to agree with "the focus of common aspirations that must unite a society" undergirds a group that act as a nation, and that leads me to doubt tommy's"a united Europe is a good thing if they can do it right". Just how would that work?
I think German cultural identity is pretty strongly united in some basics, I think it transfers through generations here in the States. I don't think that foreign transplants so much change the culture as the environment and peripheral things. I could be wrong, but my experience with Europeans was to be surprised how deeply ingrained the lines of separation tend to be between culture groups. Even in close proximity for hundreds of years.
I think all the northern European States will have to figure out policy and social acceptance and blending of their immigrants. I haven't come across those ideas anywhere yet.
# posted by : 4:37 PM
: 4:37 PM
Ilona - I don't find it surprising. Culture is a very, very powerful thing.
I agree with you about German culture, but without some other unifying layer how will they handle their immigrants? How will they be brought into society? Unless German society forms some outward, idealistic goals there is not much to unify them. Right now German society just squabbles over smaller pieces of pie.
We often don't appreciate how much we have in the US. Granted, it's a roiling, broiling squabble of a country, but it is easy for an immigrant to find a place here. The same is not true in the same way in Germany and France. I tend to think that is partially because of their economic systems. But still...
I agree with you about German culture, but without some other unifying layer how will they handle their immigrants? How will they be brought into society? Unless German society forms some outward, idealistic goals there is not much to unify them. Right now German society just squabbles over smaller pieces of pie.
We often don't appreciate how much we have in the US. Granted, it's a roiling, broiling squabble of a country, but it is easy for an immigrant to find a place here. The same is not true in the same way in Germany and France. I tend to think that is partially because of their economic systems. But still...
ilona I think you have hit on some of the biggest problems the EU has right now but they haven't attempted to address them. Once you get past the languages the differences across countries in Europe isn't that much different that the differences across states and regions here in the U.S. There are countries there that are going to be more left or right than the average just like states here.
That's why getting the European Constitution right is so important. It's not so much that it will define who they are, but it will define who they want to be. Until they have the answer to that, that won't have a good constitution.
That is probably the best part of the U.S. Constitution, it sets a very high standard for the type of people we want to be. There are more instances of failures to meet that standard than are worth listing, but when I read that document (I'm talking about the amendments here, not the nuts and bolts of government part) I can't but think, "yeah, I want to be like that."
If Europe is going to pull that off they need something inspiring as well. I think it will be good if they do, and it's up to them to find it if they are going to proceed successfully. But this ain't it.
That's why getting the European Constitution right is so important. It's not so much that it will define who they are, but it will define who they want to be. Until they have the answer to that, that won't have a good constitution.
That is probably the best part of the U.S. Constitution, it sets a very high standard for the type of people we want to be. There are more instances of failures to meet that standard than are worth listing, but when I read that document (I'm talking about the amendments here, not the nuts and bolts of government part) I can't but think, "yeah, I want to be like that."
If Europe is going to pull that off they need something inspiring as well. I think it will be good if they do, and it's up to them to find it if they are going to proceed successfully. But this ain't it.
# posted by : 5:57 PM
: 5:57 PM
Nicely said. Reading the US Constitution inspires me. Reading the proposed EU Constitution puts me to sleep and I wake up with a hangover.
Maybe it is because of my familiarity with Europe, but as I have said before, there is no reason to believe today that what has seperated Europeans in the past is in any way different.
I see the clock counting down.
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I see the clock counting down.
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