Friday, June 03, 2005
Oh Yeah?
No Oil For Pacifists thinks the Iraqi government's request for the US troops to stay and the UN's endorsement of their presence should lay the "unjust occupier myth" to rest. Not a chance, Carl. Last night I ran into this thread on DU about Galloway. The original poster thought the lionization of Galloway should stop and posted this excerpt from a Galloway interview:
M.B.H.S.: You often call for uniting Muslim and progressive forces globally. How far is it possible under current situation?Communism, baby. The original poster's sentiments are largely rejected. One who does see the problem:
George Galloway: Not only do I think it's possible but I think it is vitally necessary and I think it is happening already. It is possible because the progressive movement around the world and the Muslims have the same enemies. Their enemies are the Zionist occupation, American occupation, British occupation of poor countries mainly Muslim countries.
They have the same interest in opposing savage capitalist globalization which is intent upon homogenizing the entire world turning us basically into factory chickens which can be forced fed the American diet of everything from food to Coca-Cola to movies and TV culture. And whose only role in life is to consume the things produced endlessly by the multinational corporations. And the progressive organizations & movements agree on that with the Muslims.
They're also blowing up children and beheading aid workers. I have a very hard time ignoring that.But most reject that reasoning:
You know who else is blowing up children? (WARNING GRAPHIC) - US and British bombs.and:
The point my myopic little friend is that if the US forces were not there bombing the living piss out of everything that moves, there would not be an insurgency. There would be nothing for them to insurge against.but someone demurs:
Is that clear enough for you?
You're debating the past. I'm living in the present. Surely you don't want to see an insurgency win in Iraq by force, when a clear majority of Iraqis are striving for peaceful self-governance under the existing structure?ha!:
The US caused the problem. We were the ones who went into the country illegally and killed 100,000 Iraqis, nearly half of them children. I don't much like the beheadings, either, but if we got the fuck out of there, there would be no insurgency, as has already been pointed out.and:
It takes a lot of gall to label men like Turner--or the warrior abolitionist, John Brown--"terrorists" when we haven't been afforded the "experience" of seeing one's father lynched, mother raped, or having one's siblings sold down the river.and "Wild-eyed Liberal" tries to argue an objective standard:
Why do we expect the oppressed to suffer in silence when, in all likelihood, most of us would (rightfully) take arms to defend our families?
Idealizing the Iraqi insurgents as universal freedom fighters is dangerous and looks for all the world as if we accept terrorism as an acceptable tool to combat "oppressors". Bombing and killing is wrong. Wrong when the US does it, wrong when the Iraqi insurgents do it.so what's wrong with that?:
"On the Eleventh of September 2001, 3000 westerners were killed in the worst terrorist attack the west had ever been bothered by (because we don't see the attacks commited by America on 21 countries since WW2 as terrorist - none of the countries emerging with stable, democratic rule)See? Because the west is wealthy and has influence it is wrong, therefore it is terroristic, therefore terrorists are just defending themselves:
On the Eleventh of September 2001 - 420,000 children died of starvation which could easily been prevented had the West
a) Not imposed global policys which favour fat wallets
b) Used the gargantuan wealth garnered from exploitation of the non rich to help people other than themselves for a change".
NOW who do you think are the terrorists?
ZACTLY!!!! US global corporate policies which have exploited humanity!!!!and:
Those policies have destroyed more lives than several wars combined. Add the fact those policies also led to assassinations and wars which further oppressed people and no one should ever wonder why anti-Americanism has been fiercely rising over the last 30 - 40 years.
These facts can no longer be hidden, suppressed or denied if we are truly concerned about others' freedom and about "democracy". Of course, the BushCo/neoCON administration is interested in FORCING others to abide by their modern-day economic slavery and power. They have NO concern about human rights, civil rights, morality or values. They live for the love of power and money, not humanity.
The US is STILL bombing and killing civilians daily in Iraq. And guess what else? The clear majority of Iraqis want the USA OUT! Last thought for the day... Colonizers rarely ever beat the resistance.This, btw, isn't true. Polls have shown that only about 13% want the US out immediately. But Carl is definitely wrong - there is a segment of political thought in the US which really believes that all of the west is wrong and guilty of all of the suffering in Africa and the ME. They will never, never be convinced. And this is what will be taught as well in many universities - this is not an uncommon belief in academia.
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More muddled headed thinking by the so called "progressives", read Communists. These people are always concerned by exploitation, but they live and die in the relative lap of luxury in the Western World.
Does any body really believe that communism is better than capitalism, after the horrible atrocity of the former Soviet Union. C'mon get a life.
But first read Orwell's 1984; that book is the best comment on the pitfalls of communism.
Sometimes I think that these people who want the state to take care of them need to go back to their mother's breast and stay out of politics and take some courses in economics an heistory.
Does any body really believe that communism is better than capitalism, after the horrible atrocity of the former Soviet Union. C'mon get a life.
But first read Orwell's 1984; that book is the best comment on the pitfalls of communism.
Sometimes I think that these people who want the state to take care of them need to go back to their mother's breast and stay out of politics and take some courses in economics an heistory.
Goerge Galloway is the best PR material we could ask for.
There is no one, save the idiots, that take Galloway seriously. The fact that radical muslims attacked him at a recent rally in London is proof enough of that. He has proved to be a shrewd enough politician (positioning himself to get reelected in perpetuity by representing a minority and poor constituancy), but at the same time, he has become the poster boy for 'useful idiots.'
History is clear- there has never been a left wing political agenda that has ever proved to be successful- and the likes of George Galloway won't change that track record.
There is no one, save the idiots, that take Galloway seriously. The fact that radical muslims attacked him at a recent rally in London is proof enough of that. He has proved to be a shrewd enough politician (positioning himself to get reelected in perpetuity by representing a minority and poor constituancy), but at the same time, he has become the poster boy for 'useful idiots.'
History is clear- there has never been a left wing political agenda that has ever proved to be successful- and the likes of George Galloway won't change that track record.
Ulysses, yes, I thought of Communism as well. I have read 1984. I did when I was in elementary school. I remember discussing with my whole family what life might be like in 1984!
SC&A - then there are a LOT of idiots. A lot.
SC&A - then there are a LOT of idiots. A lot.
Minh-Duc, thanks for that info. It does make sense. What bothered me about DU is that they are just ignoring all these attacks on Iraqis!
M_O_M's right, of course, that these loud loonies exist. Their "blame America first, last and always" approach is abhorrent. Still, as explained in my updated post, I'm mostly unconcerned--if lefties joined the Muslim extremists, only two-three dozen would survive once Radical Islam stoned the libertine, the homosexual, and the secular.
Gindy - I never, never thought he would win that election. It bothers me so much.
Carl, you wild renegade, you! I cracked up reading DU - it's hard to see an alliance between these guys, isn't it?
Carl, you wild renegade, you! I cracked up reading DU - it's hard to see an alliance between these guys, isn't it?
Pedro - that's quite interesting. You may well be right.
Nihilism has got to be the most unappealing and uninfluential political movement that has ever existed. The terrorists attacking in Iraq make me think of them. Perhaps that's the attraction.
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Nihilism has got to be the most unappealing and uninfluential political movement that has ever existed. The terrorists attacking in Iraq make me think of them. Perhaps that's the attraction.
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