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Tuesday, May 16, 2006

Believe It Or Not

While conservatives, moderate conservatives, centrists and moderate leftists worry about things like illegal immigration, a group at DU is afire with excitement over the news that Judicial Watch is obtaining (they were supposed to have it at 1:00 PM) a video from the Pentagon that shows the plane attack on the the Pentagon.

Judicial Watch intends to release the tape in order to end the "* Made It Happen On Purpose" (MIHOP) or "* Let It Happen On Purpose" (LIHOP) rumors, especially within Congress itself.

DU rebuts such childish dreams in the thread. Their take is that finally we'll have proof that BUSH DID IT, and just in time too, after the crushing disappointment over the news that Rove wasn't indicted over the weekend. It seems that most believe this will prove something about Bush's culpability, or at least his nefarious plotting:
1. It won't put to rest..... That Bush allowed 911 to happen.....
24. intentionally made it happen (in my opinion)
8. Hear, hear.
That video may have been held back to fuel "outrageous conspiracy theories"...
That's one theory.
11. LOL
Actual video is supposed to satisfy the tinfoil hat people? Methinks they know not their audience.
13. Who thinks it's real?
Is anyone taking bets on how long it will take bloggers and video analysts to debunk this video as a doctored fraud?
14. Exactly three seconds. Because it's really easy to debunk things when you don't actually feel bound by reason, facts, or evidence.
Those damnable Freepers are always raising their disgusting heads whenever DU gets down to the important issues! Such uncouth interjections are genteelly ignored in the search for truth:
41. Will Judicial Watch post the video on their site or is there a plan as to where it will be shown? I doubt that this will be "proof" that the official theory is "true", but if it is faked, it will go a long way to disprove the current theory...
45. so there's video of an incoming plane and nothing was done to prevent it from crashing even after the US gov't knew we were under attack? IIRC, the Pentagon plane was the last to crash.

In addition to cameras, there are also missiles mounted on the periphery of the Pentagon. So, evidently nobody was watching the store in the building that houses our nation's defense department that day, I guess. :eyes:

Yeah, this'll quell the :tinfoilhat:
(As far as I know, the Pentagon doesn't have its own missiles. A poster says it doesn't. And another troll wades in....)
50. Good, because the conspiracy theories in this case a insane.
We even have a DUer who SAW THE FREAKING PLANE.
In response:
52. Ben, did you watch that video? It shows no plane.
58. How is it all explained away, then? nt
I love that last comment, which was a direct reply to comment 50. Make up a wild theory, ignore witnesses to the contrary, and then demand that people deal with your made-up evidence without reference to other evidence! What a concept!

The conservative bloggers who are frothing at the mouth over illegal immigration should remember that Bush cannot do much to change illegal immigration. It is the job of Congress - and more than one Congress Critter has been seen wandering the halls of power and discussing LIHOP and MIHOP theories, discussing them with their constituents, and even holding mock impeachment hearings on the "evidence".

It's just possible that we should be talking to our Congress Critters about what we want with regard to immigration, rather than expecting Bush to magically make it go away. I have seen Bush criticized for making a "symbolic" move by deploying the National Guard to the border. True, that's all that it is, but how much power does Bush have to make anything but symbolic moves? There's a little thing called the "US Constitution" that prevents him from passing laws on the matter.

Congress allocates money for resources. If we want the problem solved, Congress is going to have to sit down and develop a consensus on the approach to solve it, and no amount of Bush-thwapping will change that.

Go ahead - make the assumption that Bush LIHOPPED or MIHOPPED illegals into the country, if it pleases you. But as long as you remain obsessed with that theory, nothing will ever change. Nothing changed under Reagan. Nothing changed under Bush the Elder. Nothing changed under Clinton. Until we demand that Congress deal with the problem, it will not be addressed. Congress doesn't want to deal with the problem, and it is the job of the electorate to tell Congress that it must.

It is one of the problems of arguing something with someone who's beliefs are based in faith. As long as they cling to that faith there isn't anything that can be said to change their mind, and anything you come up with is simply proof that you're part of the conspiracy against them.

It's like trying to discuss religion, only now it's politics. And to think they claim not to be people of faith...
They do seem awfully dogmatic. And if you don't agree with them, they want to destroy you - as Lieberman is finding out.

Dr. Sanity just wrote something along those lines, btw.
Here's the deal:

The people who don't believe a plane hit the Pentagon don't believe Neil Armstrong walked on the moon and they don't believe the holocaust happened.

The rightto stupidity is firmly entrenched in our culture.
I got kicked out of there after trying valliantly to be a Bush detractor, which no matter how crazy I tried to be, they liked. I knew they had "minders" who paid special attention to newcomers. Finally, I really couldn't take the pressure of making up fake lies anymore and needed to talk about Al Franken's performance on CSPAN with OReily and Ivins, where Franken was hyping his book about liars and was roaming the stage with two microphones, which didn't satisfy him unless he was also on screen.

I pointed out that Franken was lying when he titled his previous book, "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" - Limbaugh was no longer fat at that time, and was going through his travails with deffness - and I was very respectful, though I offered the suggestion that Franken still had enough time to put himself on the cover with the other liars, since the book was not out yet.

One guy thought he had me when he asked me if I had read the book yet. Another asked me if I thought Limbaugh was an idiot. I told him I was not going to stoop to name-calling. Then another started triumphantly calling me a Freeper. At that time I didn't really know what a Freeper was. Then a minder came on and told this guy to stop calling me names. Then they kicked me off.

One other thing I noticed along with their continuous paranoia about being infiltrated and watched, was that they really had the fur flying when they talked about astrology. People were at each other's throats. Maybe some will get the bright idea to catch the next comet out of here.

I was surprised that some hated the South per se, and that they were not called on it by anyone.

Some of the Undergrounders actually made sense. But it seemed like you had to have about 1000 posts under your belt before making sense was not suspicious.

Who would title a blog the "Underground"?
It's really not a blog, although now they have journals. It's a public forum. A huge one.

I like the idea of forums, because they allow a large number of people to discuss, comment and argue over matters. That's the prerequisite for a functioning democracy.

But limiting memebers by their opinions defeats part of the purpose, IMO.

On the other hand, this is happening to some degree on the right as well. Polipundit just demanded that his fellow bloggers either adhere to his ideas on immigration or shut up about it, which caused at least one of them to leave.
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