MaxedOutMama
Tuesday, May 30, 2006
I Had A Business Meeting Today...
The business meeting was chiefly conducted in a hayfield and was a model of efficiency. I feel sorry for northerners. Life can be so prissy amd sissy up there. There's nothing like pitching hay to cut the nonsense and clarify your mind.
Anyway, with hay-induced clarity I just wanted to make a couple of other comments about immigration. The people who come here should be treated well. They should bring their families and become citizens. They should not have extralegal status, be afraid to go to the police, be a target for cirme and exploitation or be "guestworkers". "Guestworkers" haven't worked out well for any nation.
For all of that to happen, we have to get control of illegal immigration, which is an immediate security threat but also a long-term threat to our stability. If we need the labor of these people, we have the obligation to let them become full participants in society. If we offer refuge, we should offer a real refuge from persecution and a real hope for a full life in this nation.
We cannot let the current situation continue. We also bear a collective responsibility for having let this happen. I am in favor of slapping huge fines on employers of illegal aliens - AND THAT INCLUDES HOUSEHOLDS EMPLOYING ILLEGALS. I am also in favor of grandfathering into legal residency most of them that are already here and can prove - really prove - that they have been here for several years, as long as their employers put up a bond and register them.
Then I am in favor of calling a total halt to any sort of legalization program offered to those who are here illegally. Anyone who cannot qualify and who does not have children born here should be deported. In a couple of years all this will settle out on its own.
There will be no problem with enforcement if we impose large fines on employers and offer a reward to those who report employers hiring illegal aliens. The fact that we have groups of people hanging around looking for day work in so many locations proves that we have an oversupply. Life as a day laborer in a foreign land without legal status and protection of law is not a hopeful life.
Anyway, with hay-induced clarity I just wanted to make a couple of other comments about immigration. The people who come here should be treated well. They should bring their families and become citizens. They should not have extralegal status, be afraid to go to the police, be a target for cirme and exploitation or be "guestworkers". "Guestworkers" haven't worked out well for any nation.
For all of that to happen, we have to get control of illegal immigration, which is an immediate security threat but also a long-term threat to our stability. If we need the labor of these people, we have the obligation to let them become full participants in society. If we offer refuge, we should offer a real refuge from persecution and a real hope for a full life in this nation.
We cannot let the current situation continue. We also bear a collective responsibility for having let this happen. I am in favor of slapping huge fines on employers of illegal aliens - AND THAT INCLUDES HOUSEHOLDS EMPLOYING ILLEGALS. I am also in favor of grandfathering into legal residency most of them that are already here and can prove - really prove - that they have been here for several years, as long as their employers put up a bond and register them.
Then I am in favor of calling a total halt to any sort of legalization program offered to those who are here illegally. Anyone who cannot qualify and who does not have children born here should be deported. In a couple of years all this will settle out on its own.
There will be no problem with enforcement if we impose large fines on employers and offer a reward to those who report employers hiring illegal aliens. The fact that we have groups of people hanging around looking for day work in so many locations proves that we have an oversupply. Life as a day laborer in a foreign land without legal status and protection of law is not a hopeful life.
Comments:
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for me the whole thing is knowing who's here, the rest is just the details.
I'd like to see us be more open to immigration than we are, but we have to control the illegal end of it too.
I'd like to see us be more open to immigration than we are, but we have to control the illegal end of it too.
# posted by 
: 5:29 PM
: 5:29 PM
We really won't be able to be more open to immigration if we don't control who is here.
This is like the war on drugs. Unless you cut demand, you will never cut supply. But it is possible to cut new demand in this instance without victimizing the people who are here and working stable jobs. And unless we crack down on the employers, no amount of fencing the border will cut down the flow of people looking for work.
And if you grandfathered people who were here in at least for a time, you would provide a big incentive for employers to ensure that they were either legal or registered.
This is like the war on drugs. Unless you cut demand, you will never cut supply. But it is possible to cut new demand in this instance without victimizing the people who are here and working stable jobs. And unless we crack down on the employers, no amount of fencing the border will cut down the flow of people looking for work.
And if you grandfathered people who were here in at least for a time, you would provide a big incentive for employers to ensure that they were either legal or registered.
So let me get this straight.
You propose to give the illegals amnesty. Again (think 1986) This will of course be the last one.
What makes you think this will be the last amnesty?
Given that many of the illegals are from left leaning banana republics, counties with economies going down the tubes, what makes you think that this amnesty will not lead to a huge influx of poor fleeing those failing states?
What makes you think the government will enforce the new border laws, as they did not enforce the old?
What about the collapse in respect for the law that the obvious selective enforcement of laws is creating in the under 25 year old crowd? Is that good for the country?
What makes you think that such an action by the government, seen by many as an attack on the working and lower middle class for the benefit of the wealthy and will not lead to more class warfare?
What makes you think these illegal folks will come into the "regulated" marketplace, given that they are used to a "black market lifestyle? (free medical care, no taxes, no insurance, etc)?
What makes you think employers will be willing to pay the additional funds needed for taxes, health care, car insurance etc for these folks not to be state supported (welfare benefits)?
If some Employers do, why will not a new class of illegals replace them at the lower paying jobs, the ones that do not pay enough for the workers not to be part of the black market economy?
What makes you think these new citizens will not be the ones operating these black market companies?
What makes you think that this massive experiment in migration will not come out badly for the US of A, as it has for every other country that has imported a significant number of third world people into a first world economy?
Before you foist this plan off on the country, you must answer those questions. Will you and the 22 percent of the folks that think so be willing to take responsibility for the negative outcomes? If not you are just another bunch of Utopian planners, willing to subject the unwilling to your own preferences.
You propose to give the illegals amnesty. Again (think 1986) This will of course be the last one.
What makes you think this will be the last amnesty?
Given that many of the illegals are from left leaning banana republics, counties with economies going down the tubes, what makes you think that this amnesty will not lead to a huge influx of poor fleeing those failing states?
What makes you think the government will enforce the new border laws, as they did not enforce the old?
What about the collapse in respect for the law that the obvious selective enforcement of laws is creating in the under 25 year old crowd? Is that good for the country?
What makes you think that such an action by the government, seen by many as an attack on the working and lower middle class for the benefit of the wealthy and will not lead to more class warfare?
What makes you think these illegal folks will come into the "regulated" marketplace, given that they are used to a "black market lifestyle? (free medical care, no taxes, no insurance, etc)?
What makes you think employers will be willing to pay the additional funds needed for taxes, health care, car insurance etc for these folks not to be state supported (welfare benefits)?
If some Employers do, why will not a new class of illegals replace them at the lower paying jobs, the ones that do not pay enough for the workers not to be part of the black market economy?
What makes you think these new citizens will not be the ones operating these black market companies?
What makes you think that this massive experiment in migration will not come out badly for the US of A, as it has for every other country that has imported a significant number of third world people into a first world economy?
Before you foist this plan off on the country, you must answer those questions. Will you and the 22 percent of the folks that think so be willing to take responsibility for the negative outcomes? If not you are just another bunch of Utopian planners, willing to subject the unwilling to your own preferences.
# posted by : 11:15 AM
: 11:15 AM
Anon,
Thankfully I am not a dictator, and I do hope that the sense of the entire American population will rule here. I am troubled by the current legislation in Congress precisely because I think it will not.
The one thing neither of these proposals do is stop employment of illegals. Once that happens, the draw will be over. Once we know who is here and what they are doing, then we can decide what to do.
Grandfathering people in with working/residency rights for an iterim period is not amnesty. Realistically, we are not going to be deporting people with children born here. We won't deport people married to citizens or legal residents, and you wouldn't want to take care of their children if we did. The point is, a de facto amnesty ALREADY EXISTS. That is what the illegals have discovered.
We can cut down the number of people coming over the border, but we cannot stop it, so we must remove the incentives that bring people here illegally.
Anon, my guess is that we have at least 15 million people working in the country illegally. Until we cut that, we can get nowhere.
Everyone concentrates on the illegals, and they have violated the law. But what of those employing them? Everyone of them is a lawbreaker, and most know that they are breaking the law.
I am totally in favor of greater border security, but I don't fool myself that we can stop the flow of illegals with that.
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Thankfully I am not a dictator, and I do hope that the sense of the entire American population will rule here. I am troubled by the current legislation in Congress precisely because I think it will not.
The one thing neither of these proposals do is stop employment of illegals. Once that happens, the draw will be over. Once we know who is here and what they are doing, then we can decide what to do.
Grandfathering people in with working/residency rights for an iterim period is not amnesty. Realistically, we are not going to be deporting people with children born here. We won't deport people married to citizens or legal residents, and you wouldn't want to take care of their children if we did. The point is, a de facto amnesty ALREADY EXISTS. That is what the illegals have discovered.
We can cut down the number of people coming over the border, but we cannot stop it, so we must remove the incentives that bring people here illegally.
Anon, my guess is that we have at least 15 million people working in the country illegally. Until we cut that, we can get nowhere.
Everyone concentrates on the illegals, and they have violated the law. But what of those employing them? Everyone of them is a lawbreaker, and most know that they are breaking the law.
I am totally in favor of greater border security, but I don't fool myself that we can stop the flow of illegals with that.
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