MaxedOutMama
Tuesday, August 22, 2006
Gonads Do Not Determine The Quality Of A Soul
SC&A linked to an absolutely terrific post by Fausta, for which I thank the three dead shrinks who are still trying to watch over us.
Fausta begins by stating that she thinks men's lives are more difficult than women's nowadays, which I believe to be true if the men are of good character. Some teaser excerpts from her tour de force:
Fausta says a great deal in her post, but there are some things I want to say. The first is that by banishing the word "virtue" from our publicly acceptable vocabulary we women have rendered ourselves incapable of recognizing virtue in a man. Fausta's contention is absolutely true if you consider virtuous men. A man who is honest, loyal, hardworking, loving, intelligent and responsible will never get credit for that in our public culture. Oh no! Women just will snort and say "That's what he's supposed to do!" He won't be admired for ten years of such behavior, but he will be scorned and derided for one day in which he fails to live up to his own standards. If he stands by a woman through five years of breast cancer, he'll get a temporary reprieve from the public bastinado he so richly deserves. But let that same man fail to take out the garbage one day, and it will be taken as an absolute revelation of his true character.
Mind you, the feminist culture absolutely will not impose such requirements upon women themselves. You get merit points for sleeping around on a guy, merit points for treating men like hunks of meat, gold leaf clusters for taking them to the cleaners in a divorce, and a Feminist Medal Of Honor for lying to the judge about your husband being a child molester in order to wangle a better divorce deal for yourself. Because really, you know, they are all abusive sex fiends at heart. If it's not true now, it could well be? What's a little false witness amongst the sisterhood?
We have created a situation in which men cannot win, and then we wonder why so many women end up bitter and dissatisfied? Get real, sister. Men are less inherently certain of themselves than women, and they need public affirmation that they are on the right path. They could use a little private appreciation, too. Virtuous men are like perpetual motion machines for women who love and support them. You give them an ounce of love, and they return a pound of loving loyalty, support and deep, unspoken appreciation.
The best thing a mother raising a daughter can do in this society is to teach her to be virtuous, and to make demands of herself to do the right thing towards others. Then, and only then, will the daughter become an adult woman who is capable of recognizing and appreciating a fine man. Because decency is hard. Decency is a struggle! Trying to live a decent life is an epic adventure much more praiseworthy and admirable than climbing Mount Everest. Anyone who tries it will find that out, and in light of the knowledge of her own failures to live up to her own standards will then be able to appreciate the attempt in a man.
Here's the truth: If women want virtuous men, then they need to publicly say that, and live out that truth in their own lives. If women want abusive, useless men, then the best way to produce them is to announce that all men are untrustworthy and vaguely sinister addictions against which every enlightened woman should be on guard. In our public culture, women treat men as if they are food addictions, and constantly go on anti-male diets, fearful that an extra pound of male-appreciation might creep into their psyches and wreck their superbly lean and mean naked-psyche profile in the vast, bathic, confessional world of Oprah, hallowed be her name.
If you marry someone, you will soon realize that you are dependent on them. And sometimes they will be dependent on you. This dependency comes in a variety of forms, such as emotional, financial and psychological. It is not a sickness but a richness, if you choose well. We are all, men and women, in need of something at times. It could be joke, a hand with the chores, a handclasp in the middle of the night, or some concrete act of consideration. (Concrete acts of appreciation and consideration work exceptionally well for men - they rely less on words than acts in assessing where they stand.)
Instead of being scared of men, women should be scared of themselves.
Fausta begins by stating that she thinks men's lives are more difficult than women's nowadays, which I believe to be true if the men are of good character. Some teaser excerpts from her tour de force:
Let's look at 'women are inherently better than men'. If you believe that, you are WRONG. Virtue and character are inherent on each person, and gonads do not determine either; never have, never will.The endless propagandistic screeching about the evil and inherent treachery of men has taught many women to be acutely and deeply defensive in their relationships with men. The trust is gone, and that trust is what is needed in order to establish the type of reflexively loyal and intimate relationship which we naturally desire and of which we are naturally capable. (That's men and women!)
...
...many many women believe that men can't feel as deeply as women, since men generally don't verbalize hurt, grief, and despair (and I'd even say that the more deeply they feel those, the less they can verbalize them).
...
So we have a whole industry (network and cable TV, magazine, books, seminars) propagating the idea that women are inherently better than men.
...
A man who wants commitment and yearns for a reciprocal relationship will be setting himself up for hurt and disappointment if he thinks he can survive in a relationship with a woman who will not surrender herself to his love, or, equally as damaging, if he can not recognize that she is incapable.
Fausta says a great deal in her post, but there are some things I want to say. The first is that by banishing the word "virtue" from our publicly acceptable vocabulary we women have rendered ourselves incapable of recognizing virtue in a man. Fausta's contention is absolutely true if you consider virtuous men. A man who is honest, loyal, hardworking, loving, intelligent and responsible will never get credit for that in our public culture. Oh no! Women just will snort and say "That's what he's supposed to do!" He won't be admired for ten years of such behavior, but he will be scorned and derided for one day in which he fails to live up to his own standards. If he stands by a woman through five years of breast cancer, he'll get a temporary reprieve from the public bastinado he so richly deserves. But let that same man fail to take out the garbage one day, and it will be taken as an absolute revelation of his true character.
Mind you, the feminist culture absolutely will not impose such requirements upon women themselves. You get merit points for sleeping around on a guy, merit points for treating men like hunks of meat, gold leaf clusters for taking them to the cleaners in a divorce, and a Feminist Medal Of Honor for lying to the judge about your husband being a child molester in order to wangle a better divorce deal for yourself. Because really, you know, they are all abusive sex fiends at heart. If it's not true now, it could well be? What's a little false witness amongst the sisterhood?
We have created a situation in which men cannot win, and then we wonder why so many women end up bitter and dissatisfied? Get real, sister. Men are less inherently certain of themselves than women, and they need public affirmation that they are on the right path. They could use a little private appreciation, too. Virtuous men are like perpetual motion machines for women who love and support them. You give them an ounce of love, and they return a pound of loving loyalty, support and deep, unspoken appreciation.
The best thing a mother raising a daughter can do in this society is to teach her to be virtuous, and to make demands of herself to do the right thing towards others. Then, and only then, will the daughter become an adult woman who is capable of recognizing and appreciating a fine man. Because decency is hard. Decency is a struggle! Trying to live a decent life is an epic adventure much more praiseworthy and admirable than climbing Mount Everest. Anyone who tries it will find that out, and in light of the knowledge of her own failures to live up to her own standards will then be able to appreciate the attempt in a man.
Here's the truth: If women want virtuous men, then they need to publicly say that, and live out that truth in their own lives. If women want abusive, useless men, then the best way to produce them is to announce that all men are untrustworthy and vaguely sinister addictions against which every enlightened woman should be on guard. In our public culture, women treat men as if they are food addictions, and constantly go on anti-male diets, fearful that an extra pound of male-appreciation might creep into their psyches and wreck their superbly lean and mean naked-psyche profile in the vast, bathic, confessional world of Oprah, hallowed be her name.
If you marry someone, you will soon realize that you are dependent on them. And sometimes they will be dependent on you. This dependency comes in a variety of forms, such as emotional, financial and psychological. It is not a sickness but a richness, if you choose well. We are all, men and women, in need of something at times. It could be joke, a hand with the chores, a handclasp in the middle of the night, or some concrete act of consideration. (Concrete acts of appreciation and consideration work exceptionally well for men - they rely less on words than acts in assessing where they stand.)
Instead of being scared of men, women should be scared of themselves.
Comments:
<< Home
Mind you, the feminist culture absolutely will not impose such requirements upon women themselves. You get merit points for sleeping around on a guy, merit points for treating men like hunks of meat, gold leaf clusters for taking them to the cleaners in a divorce, and a Feminist Medal Of Honor for lying to the judge about your husband being a child molester in order to wangle a better divorce deal for yourself.
And men will start to notice that this sort of crap doesn't happen to men under Islam. And how the male-supremacist angle of Islamic society promises not only protection but payback...
And men will start to notice that this sort of crap doesn't happen to men under Islam. And how the male-supremacist angle of Islamic society promises not only protection but payback...
# posted by 
: 5:33 PM
: 5:33 PM
I think we are a long way from that, but I do believe that to some extent the seething distaste of Muslims for our culture is rooted in this. I cannot blame them.
Most women that I know really disagree with the public "feminine" culture. But we are never going to be quoted or heard in the media of today - and so all foreigners know of us is our media culture, which is a gross misrepresentation of our real culture. If it weren't, there would be no one in the Armed Forces.
I think the infiltration of our media culture into the legal arena is grounds for huge concern. Men are legally disadvantaged in domestic law, and there has to be an adjustment in this.
Most women that I know really disagree with the public "feminine" culture. But we are never going to be quoted or heard in the media of today - and so all foreigners know of us is our media culture, which is a gross misrepresentation of our real culture. If it weren't, there would be no one in the Armed Forces.
I think the infiltration of our media culture into the legal arena is grounds for huge concern. Men are legally disadvantaged in domestic law, and there has to be an adjustment in this.
Many many thanks for your kind words, Mama.
by banishing the word "virtue" from our publicly acceptable vocabulary we women have rendered ourselves incapable of recognizing virtue in a man.
You've hit the bull's eye on the matter with this post, and particularly with they need to publicly say that, and live out that truth in their own lives.
Excellent post.
by banishing the word "virtue" from our publicly acceptable vocabulary we women have rendered ourselves incapable of recognizing virtue in a man.
You've hit the bull's eye on the matter with this post, and particularly with they need to publicly say that, and live out that truth in their own lives.
Excellent post.
maxedoutmamma said:
"Men are legally disadvantaged in domestic law, and there has to be an adjustment in this."
There is. It's called the Marriage Strike and MGTOW (men going their own way).
Stay single. Stay free.
"Men are legally disadvantaged in domestic law, and there has to be an adjustment in this."
There is. It's called the Marriage Strike and MGTOW (men going their own way).
Stay single. Stay free.
# posted by : 9:44 AM
: 9:44 AM
"virtue"...I think historically, men were taught duties like courage, chivalry (not abusing the weak), independence, etc...didn't always follow them, but at least they were taught..at least the echo of these teachings is still around. Women on the other hand were mainly taught duties about things related to sex..staying chaste, etc..and child raising..which are sort of defunct in our modern culture. So there are more than a few women who really have no ethical principles at all...but do often have a sense of grievance.
# posted by : 9:58 AM
: 9:58 AM
M-o-M, in order to experience this "virtue" I had to create my own fictional species of nonhumans. Nonhumans who could actually form strong male-female pair-bonds, nonhumans who didn't rut like animals on any pretext, nonhumans could practice this "virtue", nonhumans who could actually be trusted with my innermost self.
Because human women were and are genetically incapable of it.
Because human women were and are genetically incapable of it.
# posted by : 10:45 AM
: 10:45 AM
It is NOT the genes but the learned behavior. On the contrary, it is absolutely instinctively natural to women to form such bonds, and to feel and display that kind of faithfulness and loyalty. It's implicit in females who pair bond.
On the other hand, if a woman is taught to deny instinct for the first 35 years of her life, she will have a danged hard time learning to exercise those instincts suddenly. All the scar tissue she has built up over those years, combined with the truly devastating messages society instills, will serve as a barrier. That was what Fausta meant by "surrendering to a man's love".
That's what it feels like. You lose a piece of yourself that you can never get back. You are never going to be whole again without him. That's what that "one flesh" thing means. It's true. There actually is a union at some sort of non-physical level. For instance, if I stop off at the store on the way home, I can tell whether I need to buy eggs or Chief No-Nag did just by thinking of him. I usually know if he's getting sick before he does. I admire him. I respect him. I like him. I love him. But we are also joined in a very basic way that I cannot explain to you. It is below mind.
I don't know if you have ever spent much time around animals? I swear to you that this is a very strong and observable trait in females. It's unquestionably genetic.
I could no more cheat on or try to attack Chief No Nag than I could fly. But then, I wasn't raised in a setting that taught me to lie to myself about what I wanted and then blame a man when I never felt instinctively satisfied with the life I had. I was raised by parents who wanted us to understand that we are both animals and something else, and to understand that instincts are not all bad and that thoughts are not automatically wrong.
The Catholic church is right on many points, and this is one of them. It simply isn't healthy for women to be batting around the way our society wants them to be.
I am not denying your personal experiences, btw. This post WAS about your reality. I am just maintaining that there is another, deeper reality which our society denies, and that this denial is brutally painful to both good women and good men, of which there are many. It's as if we are raised to believe that breathing deeply is wrong.
On the other hand, if a woman is taught to deny instinct for the first 35 years of her life, she will have a danged hard time learning to exercise those instincts suddenly. All the scar tissue she has built up over those years, combined with the truly devastating messages society instills, will serve as a barrier. That was what Fausta meant by "surrendering to a man's love".
That's what it feels like. You lose a piece of yourself that you can never get back. You are never going to be whole again without him. That's what that "one flesh" thing means. It's true. There actually is a union at some sort of non-physical level. For instance, if I stop off at the store on the way home, I can tell whether I need to buy eggs or Chief No-Nag did just by thinking of him. I usually know if he's getting sick before he does. I admire him. I respect him. I like him. I love him. But we are also joined in a very basic way that I cannot explain to you. It is below mind.
I don't know if you have ever spent much time around animals? I swear to you that this is a very strong and observable trait in females. It's unquestionably genetic.
I could no more cheat on or try to attack Chief No Nag than I could fly. But then, I wasn't raised in a setting that taught me to lie to myself about what I wanted and then blame a man when I never felt instinctively satisfied with the life I had. I was raised by parents who wanted us to understand that we are both animals and something else, and to understand that instincts are not all bad and that thoughts are not automatically wrong.
The Catholic church is right on many points, and this is one of them. It simply isn't healthy for women to be batting around the way our society wants them to be.
I am not denying your personal experiences, btw. This post WAS about your reality. I am just maintaining that there is another, deeper reality which our society denies, and that this denial is brutally painful to both good women and good men, of which there are many. It's as if we are raised to believe that breathing deeply is wrong.
As usual, excellent post.
You said, "The best thing a mother raising a daughter can do in this society is to teach her to be virtuous, and to make demands of herself to do the right thing towards others. Then, and only then, will the daughter become an adult woman who is capable of recognizing and appreciating a fine man. Because decency is hard. Decency is a struggle! Trying to live a decent life is an epic adventure much more praiseworthy and admirable than climbing Mount Everest. Anyone who tries it will find that out, and in light of the knowledge of her own failures to live up to her own standards will then be able to appreciate the attempt in a man."
As a father of a young girl who did his best to raise her with the standards you note, I just want to say 'Thank you' for those words and the ones that followed, really struck a chord.
You said, "The best thing a mother raising a daughter can do in this society is to teach her to be virtuous, and to make demands of herself to do the right thing towards others. Then, and only then, will the daughter become an adult woman who is capable of recognizing and appreciating a fine man. Because decency is hard. Decency is a struggle! Trying to live a decent life is an epic adventure much more praiseworthy and admirable than climbing Mount Everest. Anyone who tries it will find that out, and in light of the knowledge of her own failures to live up to her own standards will then be able to appreciate the attempt in a man."
As a father of a young girl who did his best to raise her with the standards you note, I just want to say 'Thank you' for those words and the ones that followed, really struck a chord.
Additionally, the feminist culture absolutely will not impose such requirements upon women themselves, or allow them to be imposed onto others: witness the attacks on the Boy Scouts of America.
"The Scout Law: A Boy Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent". Sounds like virtues to me.
While being accused of homophobia, the BSA aims to provide activities for young men in a nonsexual context. After a full year of Katrina relief in four states in the South, the Scouts have provided their campgrounds, volunteers, and supplies to anyone who was in need. NOT ONCE has anyone been turned away, regardless of sexual orientation.
"The Scout Law: A Boy Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent". Sounds like virtues to me.
While being accused of homophobia, the BSA aims to provide activities for young men in a nonsexual context. After a full year of Katrina relief in four states in the South, the Scouts have provided their campgrounds, volunteers, and supplies to anyone who was in need. NOT ONCE has anyone been turned away, regardless of sexual orientation.
Fausta - yes, and one thing our young people need desperately is the type of unsexualized and old-fashioned atmosphere that BSA provides. I really think they are hated more because of the oath than the sex bit. Anyway, it only makes sense. They don't want females camping out with the kids for obvious reasons. If your sexual orientation is toward males, mishaps can ensue.
A thousand years ago when I was an admittedly less-than-average Girl Scout, they taught the same thing, almost word for word. But nowadays I bet it changed.
A thousand years ago when I was an admittedly less-than-average Girl Scout, they taught the same thing, almost word for word. But nowadays I bet it changed.
SC&A, I just want to say that I think you will see the fruits of your teachings in your daughter's life - and may you both be granted a long time to see them.
I didn't mean to suggest that men shouldn't do the same thing, or that women shouldn't teach their sons the same values. I was just trying to address the strange feminist mutation that has erupted. I don't understand it, but it is obviously toxic.
I didn't mean to suggest that men shouldn't do the same thing, or that women shouldn't teach their sons the same values. I was just trying to address the strange feminist mutation that has erupted. I don't understand it, but it is obviously toxic.
Right on the money, MOM. I think another gift a mother can give her daughters is to teach (and model for them) respect and appreciation for their father. I didn't understand my own mother's emphasis on this until I was married...as I look back I remember the deliberate honor she showed my Dad and how it was repaid in kind. When planning our wedding, I scoffed at the bible readings suggesting that a woman pay deference to her husband. It took age and perspective to strip away the deceit with which these passages are currently interpreted to find the beautiful wisdom contained within.
Dave - but in fact many women know it. I think what's amazing is how a body of cultural knowledge could have been so silenced in one generation.
On the other hand, if a woman is taught to deny instinct for the first 35 years of her life, she will have a danged hard time learning to exercise those instincts suddenly. All the scar tissue she has built up over those years, combined with the truly devastating messages society instills, will serve as a barrier. That was what Fausta meant by "surrendering to a man's love".
Our society simply does not understand that it is possible to scar one's soul. A good friend who has in many ways been an exemplary mentor of the virtuous life (in word and deed) herself once admitted of being scarred in such a way. Her best friend's father had simply left one day. Months later, he returned, and sat back in his chair as if nothing had happened. (In that day, he would have truely been called a cad.) The hurt to her friend and her friends's mom was immense. My friend and mentor took some of that her upon herself. Even though she had a good and faithful marriage, and was raised in an age where virtue still mattered (being of my parent's generation - the "Great Generation") the distrust that was built into her heart is something that has vexed her deeply all of her life. And of of this hurt came 'second hand.'
Simple virtue, simple fidelity and simple (as in unencumbered) love are fragile things. It is no wonder that we have no precious gifts to give or recieve , when all we do is thrash about wildly.
Our society simply does not understand that it is possible to scar one's soul. A good friend who has in many ways been an exemplary mentor of the virtuous life (in word and deed) herself once admitted of being scarred in such a way. Her best friend's father had simply left one day. Months later, he returned, and sat back in his chair as if nothing had happened. (In that day, he would have truely been called a cad.) The hurt to her friend and her friends's mom was immense. My friend and mentor took some of that her upon herself. Even though she had a good and faithful marriage, and was raised in an age where virtue still mattered (being of my parent's generation - the "Great Generation") the distrust that was built into her heart is something that has vexed her deeply all of her life. And of of this hurt came 'second hand.'
Simple virtue, simple fidelity and simple (as in unencumbered) love are fragile things. It is no wonder that we have no precious gifts to give or recieve , when all we do is thrash about wildly.
Wonderful, wonderful points, Jerub-baal. The archetypes of the especially the Catholic religion can help to heal these scars. I have seen this in Chief No-Nag's life, and I've seen it in the lives of others.
I keep wanting to write about the use of those archetypes, but then I collide with the ugly reality of the archetypes reigning over the ME, and it gets too painful.
I keep wanting to write about the use of those archetypes, but then I collide with the ugly reality of the archetypes reigning over the ME, and it gets too painful.
Y'know, the greatest indicator I've seen for someone experiencing a happy marriage is the presence of a solid marriage in that person's past. I have had many many friends get married in the last ten years and not a one of those marriages have faltered— primarily because at least one of the people involved was the child of a successful marriage.
Note the "at least one." Three of my siblings married children of broken homes, and a large part of the appeal for their spouses was the fact that my family could DO stable.
I know it's anecdotal evidence, but I know that there are people out there who can treat men and women in an equally good manner while not treating them quite the same. When the call goes out to help someone move, the men are appealed to. The men are invited to the baby showers but mostly women are expected. And the best part is that nobody finds it strange.
(Mandatory disclaimer: This does not mean that my friends do not have dating mishaps, get broken hearts, or suffer from lonliness. I am merely pointing out that such healthy cultures have not been eradicated.)
Incidentally, in Fausta's post on the subject, people are lamenting how they can keep their children from being exposed to these harmful influences, or stating that they'll encounter them anyway.
We accept the reality with which we are presented.
You don't have to watch television. Or read magazines. Or spread out the ads in the newspaper. I didn't have cable growing up, and now I don't even watch television (except in DVD sets. :) ) I don't bother with most magazines, and certainly not women's magazines.
You don't have to allow your young children to watch TV that you feel is harmful to them. You don't have to get them subscriptions to magazines that are worth less than the paper they're printed on, no matter how much they beg. You don't have to buy them clothes that show their hip bones.
I cannot believe that there are people that think such things are inevitable, or that they have to do objectionable things lest they be thought cruel. It's bizarre. Don't you remember when your mother said, "If all of your friends jumped off a bridge, would you too?" Or is that just passé?
Note the "at least one." Three of my siblings married children of broken homes, and a large part of the appeal for their spouses was the fact that my family could DO stable.
I know it's anecdotal evidence, but I know that there are people out there who can treat men and women in an equally good manner while not treating them quite the same. When the call goes out to help someone move, the men are appealed to. The men are invited to the baby showers but mostly women are expected. And the best part is that nobody finds it strange.
(Mandatory disclaimer: This does not mean that my friends do not have dating mishaps, get broken hearts, or suffer from lonliness. I am merely pointing out that such healthy cultures have not been eradicated.)
Incidentally, in Fausta's post on the subject, people are lamenting how they can keep their children from being exposed to these harmful influences, or stating that they'll encounter them anyway.
We accept the reality with which we are presented.
You don't have to watch television. Or read magazines. Or spread out the ads in the newspaper. I didn't have cable growing up, and now I don't even watch television (except in DVD sets. :) ) I don't bother with most magazines, and certainly not women's magazines.
You don't have to allow your young children to watch TV that you feel is harmful to them. You don't have to get them subscriptions to magazines that are worth less than the paper they're printed on, no matter how much they beg. You don't have to buy them clothes that show their hip bones.
I cannot believe that there are people that think such things are inevitable, or that they have to do objectionable things lest they be thought cruel. It's bizarre. Don't you remember when your mother said, "If all of your friends jumped off a bridge, would you too?" Or is that just passé?
I raised two sons to be chivalrous and virtuous, good men. And now that they are in their twenties, I have had to watch their hearts get stomped on by young women, young women that do not understand what they've done, or why they shouldn't do it. It both infuriates me and fills me with despair. I did not equip them to function in this society, I feel like I've done them a diservice. I can't help them now, and I don't want grandchildren raised by these women.
# posted by : 6:57 AM
: 6:57 AM
"virtuous men"-now THAT's the greatest oxymoron I've ever heard
Really? There's one greater: "Faithful women."
Really? There's one greater: "Faithful women."
# posted by : 11:49 AM
: 11:49 AM
Okay, duelling anons - get a grip. Most human beings are who they choose to be. We are not helpless billiard balls banged around on the pool table.
The issue is not whether we are male or female, but whether we treat each other with respect and consideration. The issue is whether we are raising young people who know to look for that in each other.
The issue is not whether we are male or female, but whether we treat each other with respect and consideration. The issue is whether we are raising young people who know to look for that in each other.
Grieving Anon, you wrote: "I raised two sons to be chivalrous and virtuous, good men. And now that they are in their twenties, I have had to watch their hearts get stomped on by young women, young women that do not understand what they've done, or why they shouldn't do it. It both infuriates me and fills me with despair. I did not equip them to function in this society, I feel like I've done them a diservice. I can't help them now, and I don't want grandchildren raised by these women."
I understand your point about the grandchildren absolutely. There is some hope in what you've written, because you recognize that the women involved don't understand what they are doing.
That's why I thought Fausta's post was so important. There ought to be an opening there if they can be brought to a better understanding.
All I can tell you is that I will pray for your sons and their wives (or girlfriends). But I also believe that we, men and women alike, should speak out! Publicly! We should speak our minds about these issues, because the more we don't the more pain is caused.
It's funny - people often recognize the truth when they hear it said. Those who are acting badly from ignorance often can and do change when they encounter reality.
I understand your point about the grandchildren absolutely. There is some hope in what you've written, because you recognize that the women involved don't understand what they are doing.
That's why I thought Fausta's post was so important. There ought to be an opening there if they can be brought to a better understanding.
All I can tell you is that I will pray for your sons and their wives (or girlfriends). But I also believe that we, men and women alike, should speak out! Publicly! We should speak our minds about these issues, because the more we don't the more pain is caused.
It's funny - people often recognize the truth when they hear it said. Those who are acting badly from ignorance often can and do change when they encounter reality.
The issue is not whether we are male or female, but whether we treat each other with respect and consideration.
We don't.
The issue is whether we are raising young people who know to look for that in each other.
We're not.
We don't.
The issue is whether we are raising young people who know to look for that in each other.
We're not.
# posted by : 4:49 PM
: 4:49 PM
Michael - then that's an even deeper problem, because it means we form bad friendships as well. A great deal of happiness in life ensues from our own actions and our actions stem from our beliefs and ability to put them into practice.
B Durbin,
You don't have to watch television. Or read magazines. Or spread out the ads in the newspaper. I didn't have cable growing up, and now I don't even watch television
You are correct in that one can avoid all of those in one's house.
However, do you keep your children from visiting all the places that carry those things? The public library's newspaper & mag section? Friends' houses? Doctos' waiting rooms? Restaurants with TV at the bar like TGIFriday's?
How much can a parent concievably try to isolate their chilfren? And wouldn't it be counterproductive?
You don't have to watch television. Or read magazines. Or spread out the ads in the newspaper. I didn't have cable growing up, and now I don't even watch television
You are correct in that one can avoid all of those in one's house.
However, do you keep your children from visiting all the places that carry those things? The public library's newspaper & mag section? Friends' houses? Doctos' waiting rooms? Restaurants with TV at the bar like TGIFriday's?
How much can a parent concievably try to isolate their chilfren? And wouldn't it be counterproductive?
Dave,
As a sometimes "nice guy" myself I don't think the fact that women don't tend to fall for nice guys nescessarily reflects badly on them. Nice guy behavior can be an expression of neediness.
As a sometimes "nice guy" myself I don't think the fact that women don't tend to fall for nice guys nescessarily reflects badly on them. Nice guy behavior can be an expression of neediness.
I don't think children can be isolated from these influences. I think the task in front of parents is presenting a cohesive, strong alternate to them.
That's an exceptionally hard task in an era when both parents usually have to work, and often have to work long hours. If you don't get to spend enough time with your kids, it's very hard to give them enough of your outlook to make it convincing.
That's an exceptionally hard task in an era when both parents usually have to work, and often have to work long hours. If you don't get to spend enough time with your kids, it's very hard to give them enough of your outlook to make it convincing.
It has long seemed to me that women, as the recognized "emotion experts," are often glib and smug in talking about feelings and in the assumption of their superior sensitivity and expertise. When we think we're full of feeling, we're are often just talking and thinking about feelings, and in rather well-rehearsed ways. Men, on the other hand, just . . . really . . . feel. Raw and touching and refreshing -- the real thing rather than the talked-over, womanhandled, manufactured product.
Mama,
What an incredible insightful post. It really makes one think of the task that sits before all of us as we raise our children. Thank you so much!
The comments here are also very interesting and it gives one lots to think about.
Post a Comment
What an incredible insightful post. It really makes one think of the task that sits before all of us as we raise our children. Thank you so much!
The comments here are also very interesting and it gives one lots to think about.
# posted by : 3:30 AM
: 3:30 AM << Home
